Returning to Nepal with a US degree, good or a bad idea?

 Five years ago, in Nepali gathering, you could see several students who would say
  "I would have gone to Nepal, but this darn Maoist insurgency.. you don't know what happens to your life when you go there"
Today, we are complaining that "we won't have car and house rightaway in KTM".

So basically, this is a progress.

I know most of those in the states don't go back. Few do, and most of those who go back seem to succeed.

I personally think life is bitch everywhere. It is upto you to make it better. Nepal is bad today doesn't mean it will remain so forever. US is good today also doesn't mean it will remain like that forever. If you are brilliant, I am sure you will enjoy your life wherever you are. In fact, you will find a way to enjoy your life wherever you are.

 very true @newstudent.  

Very impressed with this http://www.afn.org.np/listen.php?id=23   (part 10). 


Personally, i think whether live in Nepal or USA you should be living happy and enjoy the life. But it would be better if we can contribute at least a little  to our country. This kind of feeling is on me and i know to you( may not to some) all also. Things would have been different if i was born here having Nepali parents or was raised having culture of here. But no, i was born and have tradition of Nepal. so my identity is Nepal which i cannot change neither I want to. Its been five years i am here, i am still continuing my study and want to spend some more tough time and gain some more experience and also enjoy some life here; but later on no matter what other say i am going back. 

 newStudent, your last paragraph of your second last post echoes exactly what some of us have been saying. Unless you've already completed your Master's or a Doctorate and still failed to succeed to land a decent job, don't return back! 

Your take on the present day Kathmandu ( I was born and raised in Kathmandu and I could only relate to what I'm familiar with which is why I talked about Kathmandu, not Nepal in General ) is really inaccurate. You live in the States so please don't judge Kathmandu based on your assumptions. I am in Nepal right now and I can find people to vouch for everything as I've shared. I'm not sure if you're aware but once a trafficman signals the vehicles to halt to allow all Pedestrians to cross the road, more than 1,000 people cross the road at once, giving you some overwhelming feelings like where all those people came from and whether they'd just returned back from an andolan. 

Also, you say new roads will be created. Where in Kathmandu, I really wonder. Saying things like "government should ban all vehicles" are silly at best. The country's run by crooks. Did you know that the current Transportation Minister transferred the CEO of the department of transportation for opposing the minister's decision to remove the CCTV's that had put a stop on all illegal activities that took place while giving trial rides to get your licenses because the minister's commission was directly affected? You think the ministers and the leaders care enough? Further, you reckon the citizens will abide by the rulings pertaining to banning of imports and operations of cars and motorbikes? Get real buddy.  The traffic situations in and around places like Kalanki, Gongabu, Chabahil, Lagankhel, Tripureswore, New Road etc are so damn chaotic that you might end up breaking down. There are no parking spaces left! Newer Malls are being constructed in places that can ill-afford to handle any additional vehicles. Where are you going to build roads? I hope you're well aware of the fact that the locals residing in places like Katunje of Bhaktapur, Chapagaun, Kirtipur etc rejected government proposal of "Greater Ring Road" citing the hiked up property value. 

As more Nepalese leave the country, the income through remittance are increasing year after another. The prices of goods and commodities are so damn expensive that its unbelievable. Surviving isn't the main issue, leading a decent life is. If all one cared about was living an affordable life then hell, I'd rather move to Dhangadhi or Taplejung. There's a solid reason why a number of Professionals are abandoning their careers and moving abroad. Money's not a key, motivation, environment and what not are. 

Also, I can't fathom your audacity to take GC for granted. Where exactly do you live man? A number of my friends failed to get jobs that their American friends managed to get, despite being more qualified than the Americans, simply because they didn't have GCs and their companies didn't wanna sponsor them! There are thousands of highly skilled professionals of Indian origin wishing they had GCs because without GCs, their career is always at a risk! 

The irony of everything is, I live in Nepal while you don't. 

@ Old English, I said "the grass is always greener on the other side" just to reflect my own experiences. When I was in the States, I used to think that no matter what I'd do here, Nepal would be far better than the States. 

I suppose I'm starting to sound like a broken record but yet again, I repeat, if you're well qualified and have already launched into a decent career, thoughts of moving back are pointless. Sure, you'll be missing your friends, family, culture and food but really, if you seriously thought about it, you could have all those things in the States too. If you live in Cities like Dallas, San Francisco Bay Area, Boston, Queens, Houston, Chicago, DC/Baltimore or in states like Virginia, you can enjoy all the commodities. 

The situation of the country is worsening day by day. Hospitals and health-care institutions are in such pathetic conditions that its unbelievable. Its believed that more than 50,000 Kathmanduites will die simply due to the lack of healthcare, should a massive Earthquake rock the valley. 

As everybody keeps saying, Nepal is a poor country full of rich people. There are a lot of people with shitloads of money over here and its the people's "nothing to lose" attitude to go alongside their selfishness that the country's roots are so mismanaged! Sure, roads ( as I've stressed a lot on ) would've been constructed but the fact is, there's no availability of spaces to pave new roads on! 

We can't convince anyone to return back to nepal or come to usa pointing out many many reasons. But here what i did.

 I confirmed by ticket to Nepal and heading back on february. :D

anybody is going back, we can go together...PM ME.

And wish me good luck...

 i want to, but time is not right

this thread is getting really interesting. good luck rakchas......keep us posted

One of the biggest reasons or may be the main reason why we fear going back home is, we are scared to be seen as a "loser". Let's admit it. We are scared to hear "Kye kye nai garchu bhanero america gayeko thiyo," or "teslai sakena america ma." But the reality is, no one really cares back home.
Your parents will be more than happy to have you back home with them after so long. And relatives and neighbors will bad-mouth for a while but they will realize that it was you who got the opportunity to come to the US and not them in the first place and will keep their mouth shut. And besides, do we really want to live our lives according to what other people say and think. OF course not.

Hurray,
I hear your sentiments. But the culture in Kathmandu is a whole other animal. One of the things that I repeatedly hear about Kathmandu is that your individuality dissolves once you land there. The whole place runs on "who said what about who." Everyone has an opinion on you. And if you go against it, you are seen as arrogant. This is the problem with Kathmandu. In the States who can experiment with a lot of things, and if you fail, no one knows no one cares. In Nepal, even if you fail, you have to polish it in so many ways and learn to tell so many stories. You can brush 'what other people say' away, but it nags you in the back of your mind.

Also, I have many people say that Nepalese work a lot more harder in the States than they do in Nepal. I have heard people say, "if you work as hard in Nepal as you do in America, people could earn the kind of income they do in the States. Is there some truth to this?

 Bio, you make a number of good points but again, what you and someone like newStudent are failing to realize is Kathmandu isn't the same as it was during the insurgency. Kathmandu's gotten worse and is beyond repair now. The country is likely to impose 20 hours of load-shedding from next year and no matter what we did, we are going to have loadshedding for at least another 5 years. Sure, there are ways of getting by things, rescheduling, making a different routine etc but the fact remains, life does become miserable. 

Please come visit Nepal this year and try to relate to the Nepal of mid 2000s. There's a massive difference. 

And in all fairness, all it comes down to is this - if you have a decent job in the US, there's no way you're going to abandon it to return back. Because if some mishap occurred, you'll be left ruing for the rest of your life. Now if you're from a decent family and failed to do something big there, you'd definitely return back to Nepal as comparatively, you're way better off over here. 

Now for someone who comes from a relatively "poor" family, no matter what you're doing in the US, there's no way back. Absolutely none. When will you earn enough money to build a house, take care of your family, ride decent vehicles and dress well when you're making such a "feeble" figure? 

Its always easy to lecture people and exaggerate about things when you're not partaking the risk. For a established person in the US, its pretty convenient to say things like, well if you're talented enough, no matter where you go, you'll succeed. But what of my buddy who topped his University? He's earning 14k/year, has been working for almost 2 years and still can't afford to buy a damn motorbike! Compare his situation with a gas station attendant in the US. You should get my message! 

 So, Agni, what's your proposition? Everyone should abandon Kathmandu and move away? Is that what your suggestion?

You are making so many assumptions, I don't know where to start. What makes you think I am living in the states and far from knowing the reality of KTM? In fact, I am not comfortable with your stress on the fact that you live in KTM. How do we know that? For all I know, you seem to know a great deal about the states. In any case, let's put these irrelevant things (like I live here, you don't know anything, etc etc) away. Let's focus on hard facts.

Lots of people who are super smart make small amount of money. Tons of math professors in the states make a pittance in comparison to the MBAs. So on and so forth, you know.

In any case, please be more optimistic about our life in Nepal. It does have great future.

And yes, lots of people , PhDs from MIT, Berkeley, Harvard or other top universities live in KTM, happily. I have met quite a few of them. You need to have a purpose in life. You should try to transform society. Barring that, all you are hoping for is a life where you serve white people so that you can ride on their cars and their vehicles, then, I am sure USA is a right place to aim for.

I live in Kathmandu, sir and I recently returned back myself. Fortunately enough, I come from a family with a decent financial status and I sought to ply my trade here in Kathmandu itself instead of returning back. 

I'm not suggesting that everyone should pack their bags and flee the country. There's no need for that but the originator of the thread asked if returning to Nepal with a US degree is a good idea or not to which I said - If you have a decent job in the States, it will be a foolishness to return back. Further, if you don't have a decent financial background back home, Kathmandu will squeeze all you've learned out of your mind. 

Like I previously mentioned, one of my friends, a topper from a reputed uni ( he earned full scholarships to get into the college ) is making 15k/ month and despite having worked at the company for 2 years, he still can't afford a motorbike. 

Imagine a Harvard or Berkeley or Duke or hell, even South Dakota State Uni topper facing a situation. 

Nepal does offer a number of options for the "haves". You need dough to invest to launch a career here. Business is the way to go. Working for others as entry level staff will neither allow you to earn a decent sum, nor lead a happy life. 

Of course, happiness can be attained in different ways. By doing Yoga, or even practicing some "yogism" by being a devotee of a renowned yogi, there are ways. 

Working for others in the States was the main reason why I decided to return back. I was fortunate enough to have the luxury of affording to take loans and starting a business. Further, I need not worry about building homes or buying lands ( not trying to sound like a brat or anything ) but do you reckon it'd be a noble idea for someone who doesn't have the same luxury to return back? 

When on earth will someone who's gonna start off at 25k/month be able to buy a house in Kathmandu? A simple 2 bedroom flat at a decent place costs 10-15k over here. Lets get real here man and escape all this romanticism. I'm not try to depress anybody. Instead, I'm just expressing my views as a realist. I'd definitely welcome everyone with a US degree to return back, develop this country of ours and what not but for someone who's making over 50 grand per year in the States, is giving up a promising career just because he'd no longer enslaved to white men ( as you put it ) worth it? I highly doubt it. 


For the record, I spent 7 years in the US. Traveled all over it, have friends and family all over and thus, I'm well familiar of situations of Nepalese. 

biology

you have very nice points. it is so true that we came here in our late teen and early 20s and priorities in life were different. we focused more on instant gratification and materialism. as we are progress into 30 and over, our priorities as well as perspective of/on life is different.

it is also true that we focus on what nepal doesnt not have rather than what it has, when we talk about going back. many people said that they would return once the insurgency was over, now its a different excuse for them. remember that the time is always right to do the right thing. we were born there and we sure can go back and live. i am not saying it will be a piece of cake but the nature of human being is to adjust.

hurray

being "loser" is a very big factor that is stopping people from going back. "phalano ko chora le chhai utai basyo, yo chhai aayo kehi garna nasakera" bhanne jasta kura hunchhan. our society puts a great emphasis on that.

agnibikram

you really seem to know the US inside out. u must have had lived here or else there is no way that you can explain about the US so precisely.

 Now I tend to agree with you, almost.

I agree that people with no network, no financial strength, from far flung districts, should think hard before returning because tough time may be awaiting them.[Of course, people make tons of money in those far away districts too, but the probability of doing so is less.]

But I don't agree how you characterize your friend (who "topped" univ--without mentioning with what degree) making 15K entry level salary. I think people shouldn't expect to make tons of money at the entry level just because they topped university. In any case, it is entry level job. If he has high IQ, I am sure he will rise quickly. If all he did was rote like parrot to get the gold medal, then the gold medal is really not worth much.

I have friends who failed in highschool, went to feed business rightaway as an apprentice of a marwari businessman, and in fifteen years, they have become trader. To succeed in business, we need different kind of skill. A PhD or MA gold medalist should think about research opportunities, because that's where the competitive advantage for them lies. A gold medalist with the 'victimized look' can really be a burden for his boss, his family and so on. People should really quickly move on to learn salable skill and cash in on it rather than waiting for people to come and pay them big bucks. 

I think it will take awhile before people can expect to go back to Nepal, get a "good jagir" that pays them lakhs of rupees, and drive around in car. Rightnow, people should go back with good business ideas and mean to implement them. A few friends of mine went back and started good restaurants. I thought they made our city life better. I myself have some plan to start a children's park in Pokhara (this darn land price hike put a temporary stop to that), so that people can spend more time in Pokhara and there is something for children. One day, we will see emergence of Road King type billionaires, who make road and levy toll taxes for driving there. Just like ten years ago, several people wouldn't have imagined malls/apartments buildings in KTM, today it is hard for a lot of us to imagine a city with better amenties. But we are moving toward that direction.

Also, note that when you visit Geneva, you see that new city is built around an old city that looked as shitty as our KTM. In Lhasa, or Beijing too, old city has been preserved and new cities are built around it. So, one day, people in KTM see the benefit in making good infrastructures around the valley and things will be better. In any case, with US education and worldlywise attitude, you should definitely work towards changing people's attitude. 

I have been watching this thread for a last few days and I Cant remain without posting some of my experience.

I studied in Australia  and went back to Nepal  and lived in nepal for few years and Now I am in US.

I went to Australia when I was 16 years old to do my high school.After finishing the bachelor degree ( it took me 7 years to finish from 12 + diploma + bachelor  ) i decided to go back to Nepal. I decided because  I  wanted to stay with my family. None     of my relatives   liked the idea of me going back so they said don't come back, yo dehs ma kehi chaina , you will regret etc ect. .MY family didnot  say like that so I went back to Nepal .

After I went back everything was strange for me.But everything became normal after 6 months or so. Only thing I didnot have was friends. All my friends were in either AUSTRALIA OR USA.I started a small company soon after I landed in Nepal. First 3 years was very very hard. and i struggled a lot for rent and staff salary. then  big break came after few years and I made lot of money. I never ever in my life thought I would make this kind of money.

I am currently in USA because of my wife. I travel back and forth and look after my company. Skype has made life easier these days .

anyway  What I suggest is if you think you can do better in Nepal, go for it.   life is not as hard as we think when we are overseas. Sure there are no roads but that thoughts dont come to your mind when you are in Nepal. I still ride my old motorbike when I am in Kathmandu.Imagine the opportunities in Nepal. Nothing is done . you can do anything and make money. sure its hard but if you work hard like in USA  you can definitely find a success in NEPAL.

having said that one of my friends was kicked out from home becasue he didnot have money when he came back from Australia and went to do job in bank for 12 000/ Month. His parents were very very disssponted and kicked him out of the home.So be careful you need family support , its very important , if I didnot have family support for the first few years I would have commited suicide.

if you think of doing business in Nepal you better have lots of ropanis inside ktm because banks don't give unsecured loans. the dude who was saying in Nepal we don't have to pay taxes so we can invest better than US is forgetting the fact that in order to start a business you got to have enough capital or have decent collateral to get loans from banks. Also don't forget that those banks give you 12% interst to get your money i am sure they would charge about 18% to give you loans. seriously the Nepali banks are robbers. Also unlike in USA if you want to do business in Nepal it all boils down to who you know and who are you. you have to have strong family ties with the influentials and know madbadis who control the business world. seriously, to prosper i Nepali business world is how you play your cards with these marbadis who can make you a begger in months if you piss them off.And don't forget the the new netas and their relatives , familes etc.they roam around like they own the world and you can't call for law you come rescue you. if you don't have rich and i mean filty rich say 6 ropanis land inside ktm and at least 10 carore in capital don't even thnink you are going to strive in Nepal just with ideas.

Perception is:

Grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence.  Is it really green?  You have to go over the fence to find out.  You might be disappointed.  You might be happy.

While living abroad:

You will miss Nepali festivals, friends and family, food
You will miss hariyo dada kaada khola naala
You will miss hustle and bustle of the place you grew up

While living in Nepal:

You will miss cleanliness, ease of doing business and organization of the first world
You will miss on-demand hot water, electricity, clean air, good medical care, arts and entertainment
You will miss having an insulated home and driving nice automobiles on smooth roads

So, either way, you are screwed because you have your feet in two canoes.  Whichever way you lean, you will feel some pain.  It's your decision which pain is bearable to you.  It's up to you how you manage from hereon.

But isn't it nice to have this option.  Lot of people don't.  You are the lucky-sonofabitch.

Fact is:

If

1. If you come from affluent family, meaning you have house(s) and land(s) in Kathmandu
2. Through your family, you have substantial network, meaning you or your daddy has ties with thulo-badaa and knows the ropes
3. You got your US degree but can't get a job deserving your qualification

Then

It is best if you return to Nepal and make the best of what you already have.  Eg. some Golchas, Amatyas, Ranas, etc.

Or

If

1. If you come from middle class family with not much wealth and not much "afno manche" connections

Then

It is best to stay in the US or Australia and make something of yourself here.  You won't get better opportunity in Nepal than here.

Or

If

1. If you have PhD in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) field from a respectable university
2. You already have or on track to get Green Card
3. You have a job that is actually quite fulfilling, meaning you enjoy doing what you do at work
4. You have kids

Then

Stay put in the US or Australia.  Nepal is not even an option for you.

And forget the crap about desh-bikaas and nation-building nonsense.  These are the guilt trips that people put on you. They have little or no concern about your well being.  

Say you do feel like nation building and return to Nepal leaving everything you have built here.  What exactly are you going to do or can you do?  Are you going to join the Maoists or Congressis or Communists?  Do you honestly think that you can rise high in those wretched ranks and be a prime minister or president?  Oh you say, you don't have to join the politics to do good in Nepal.  Sure, you say, you can open schools or another Maiti Nepal.  But, I say to you, you can do that by working in the US or Australia and sending some financial support back to Nepal.  You can designate people to do the ground work there.  That would be the most efficient use of the resources. YOU CAN SERVE YOUR MOTHERLAND FROM OUTSIDE TOO.

Focus on yourself and your family.  What is good for you?  What is good for your family?  And then, donate some to charity in Nepal with prudence.  If you can figure that out, nation will take care of itself.

I really admire the feeling spilled out here, and i believe it is just not the vacuous patriotism. somehow if we connected ourselves to Nepal, be it living here or be it returning back to nepal, it could be brain gain instead of brain drain. Those who were already routed back there or are in the process of routing back, are "embodiment of hope" for future better nepal and it is really commendable because we need lion heart to make own teritory back there out of chaos. One sentence i want to recite here again " if u want to return then its a right time otherwise it will be too late" and i am pretty much convinced with that saying. If u return back when everything is ok, then u will be lost like in US, nomatter how genious you are but this time itself is an oppertunity to make change if you already have some experience here.

With being said that u might ask me WTF  i'm doing here then. Well, i came here just 1 years ago after having B.E. and now pursuing MS here. I can stay here throughout my life with my GC but feeling is gradually changing and i hope this will drag me back to Nepal. Before that i have to learn many things from here. Shortly after coming here  i used to think why did i come here? Now i realized, its an oppertunity to learn my own weaknesses and mistakes, to learn the spectrum of differences between least developing and the developed country.

For those who said Nepal is polluted,corrupted bureaucracy is prevalent, everything is delapidated, who did that?
Did u ever think its my street before u spit or pee or throwing garbage? I didn't.

Did u ever teach yr family that we can reduce household garbages upto greater extent rather throwing in the street infront of own house when there is noone to collect it, in my case i didn't.

Did you ever ask yr parents how did he manage your unlimited desire, stylish bikes with the salary of few thousands? well in my case i never desired anything he couldnot afford.

Whom do you think are the corrupted bureaucates? They r my uncles, dad, brothers,relatives.

Think about it, u will get the answer of "who did it"

u know what the problem with all of us. we are way overanalyzing  this thing. something that phucks us all.

 What bothers me is this type of general statement.

Kalopani, for example, writes

"if you don't have rich and i mean filty rich say 6 ropanis land inside ktm and at least 10 carore in capital don't even thnink you are going to strive in Nepal just with ideas"

Obviously, Kalopani is not telling us what type of business needs 6 ropanis of land (which is about 20 karod rupees). Because he doesn't have to go into specifics. I knew this guy, Ichha Raj Tamang, came from remote district, and started a housing business and is now a billionaire. The owner of Bhatbhateni mall, Min Bahadur Gurung, too came from remote district and became almost billionaire. It is not easy to succeed in Nepal, I agree, but there are tons of people with new ideas who have worked hard to succeed, and in succeeding, not only did they make money for themselves, they also changed the way we live in KTM.

Kalopani also blames bank interest rate. Two years ago, banks were running to find people with ideas and interest rate was low. If interest rate is high today, then it must be because there are a lot of lucrative sectors. This is simple 'demand and supply' thing.

And try getting cheap loans in US now. It is not like before financial crisis.

A few Nepali in the town I am living now wanted to start a restaurant. I was shocked to find the kind of redtape they had to go through. They had to shell out almost 80,000 dollars to fulfill city regulations. I asked the city govt councilman why so many rules were there for small business. They were supposed to be business-friendly to small wannabe businessmen. There were so many regulations it took the guys almost 7 month to open a restaurant.

At the end of the day, if your goal is to find fault, sure you will find such faults everywhere. People can bitch all the way to their grave. I have seen people with negative attitude,who always complain how others came in the way of their progress, and I am sure those people will be complaining in front of god too.:)
===

Every time I go home, I find some old people crying out for their son. One example is particularly striking. The father had actually studied in the states in 70s and went back to teach in TU. He had three houses in KTM, netting about 70,000 Rupees in rent (not very big houses). Their only son was a postdoc here (with STEM degree) in a midwest state. When he came, he was very unhappy with the life of his son. The daughter--in-law was working in a convenient store. Forty years ago, he was studying in the coastal region, with much better life. He asked his son to go to Nepal, but his son refused. He suspected his son was ashamed at his position and was afraid he wouldn't succeed in Nepal and was therefore seeking refuge in middle of nowhere midwest state. He didn't say anything to his son, not to hurt his feeling, but he was very disappointed at his son. He had really stopped going around to raise rent in his house (where mostly students from outside districts live). In Nepal, you can find a lot of fathers in such situation.