Folks,
 We have discussed quite a bit in the aspect of religions that involved for the society what it meant to shape us now and what it is now. We evaluated a lot of verses written a few thousands years ago, in that context. And we do work hard to understand (interpret) in today's sense. And quite a few things still do make sense. 

Here is what I propose to ponder:
What should be the role of religion moving forward?
What should it teach, focus, encourage(discourage)?

Some religions talked salvation(Moksha), some englightenment, etc etc..(but only a few similar ones)

What is should be the purpose?

Moreover, thinking even more radically, is there even a place for religion?

What do you think?

 वाहा लै येशु ले आएर नखानुस भन्या जस्तो छ !! Like a true born again. Its just like putting on new clothes. Just wait till it wears on you. Nice Porpoganda !! 

immaculate conception diyo jasto cha yasu le. on second thought i think christianity just did us a huge favor, yastai anuhar na danuhar pandav sunuwar haru sabai lai batulera christian banaudai arkai desh ma lagey pani huncha. bihana bihana yo aimai ko photo herda kada le akha ma ghochya jasto bhayo babai!! din nai bigrini bho gathey!

 if god (which I doubt exist and is only created by humans out of fear) as mighty as you think can resolve all human problems, human trafficking, hunger, drugs, violence, rape, murder, pedophilia etc....i don't care what a religous book says (bible koran etc), that book is not a proof of existence of god, it is only claim made by those who sought to reap advantage of people who are too afraid to ask the validity of those claims. In the process it may have helped people here and there but the holistic picture depicts a different issue. Look at the pope sitting in his golden thrown while millions are dieing out of hunger. Is that what we have become, with the huge ego of these religious leaders have to grasp power over the mass they are willing to inflict fear of judgement after death (burn in hell, tato teel ma polney)? 

my philosophy is simple: do good, be good, help others and don't hurt others if there is such thing as someone judging you based on the life you lived, after you die, then there is nothing to fear because you did good things. If there is nothing beyond death then you have lived a fulflilling life and been a good person. In my opinion one doesn't need religion, god or cult to guide you and teach you these basic moral principal.  

@bathroom,
to ask Theists to jump off a cliff to prove the existence of God is same as me asking you to go on a murder and raping spree since there is no God.

@bathroom,
God did not make sickness. Most predisposing factors for sickness are alcohol abuse, smoking, sedentary lifestyle, pollution, etc. Yes it can be genetic and that is the only factor that can be attributed to God. But you really have to be well read in Genetics to prove that. I am not well read in that but we all know that use of nuclear weapons can interfere with our  genes. So, you have to prove that God made those defective genes. It only proves that we were made to evolve and are susceptible to external factors to a large extent. It proves that we were not made perfect.

@bathroom,
it is better to observe a debate if you do not have anything intelligent to contribute. 

MORE LATER.....    

Freedom  - "to ask Theists to jump off a cliff to prove the existence of God is same as me asking you to go on a murder and raping spree since there is no God."

You are so disillusioned my friend. First of all, Theists are the ones who accept the existence of an all powerful god. They are the ones who have to prove it's there.

If you say, you have a candy, you have to prove by showing it. If you say you don't have candy, then you don't have to get naked to show you don't have a candy.

The burden of proof falls on the person who claims existence of something. Let's say I make up something like "dipsdokus" and say "dipsdokus does not exist." I do not have to proof that it does not exist! If you say it exists then you're the one who has to prove it!

Asking a theist to prove there is god is not the same as asking an atheist to go on a murder and raping spree. In fact there is no connection there besides your inability to understand that it's is basic human knowledge that murdering and raping is bad. You do not need any religion to tell you that. If someone hurts you, or rapes you, then you know you do not like it. If someone murders you, you will not like it. These are just common sense. If you really need religion to tell you murder or rape is bad then you need some psychological help. I suggest you go see a doctor.

As far as sickness goes you have no problem attributing all good things like cure and medicine to God but everything else is man's fault.

Freedom you need to watch this video which gives you complete picture of what God is and isn't.





Another one

@Rethink, @Bathroom,
i was highlighting the stupidity of your debating capabilities thats all. Only 6 year olds indulge in such logic. 
And when you mention medications, not all have been good. Vioxx killed 60K people. Now super bugs are feared due to over use of antibiotics. So when you bring medications into the argument, what exactly is your point remains to be seen. Many medications have been discovered by Christians. Religion teaches Science is also a creation of God. When you go to a Church, they do not tell you not to take medications. They also do not advice you to jump off a cliff. Far from it, they advice stuff like to forgive people, pray for those who persecute you, etc. 

@Rethink,
If i tell you i am a multi millionaire, all you need is to see me living in a multi million dollar mansion, driving around in an expensive lamborghini, etc. I do not have to show you my bank balance. If you were smart, you would ask me instead how to become rich like me and i would teach you the way. 
God represents the Unknown and is accessed through faith. Among believers, we have already proven the existence of God. Holy books talk of faith in God to experience. In fact in Hinduism, you hear of people meditating for eons to experience. God. So really, it not like a candy you talk about. If God was like candy, then there would be no need for religion nor faith.

@Rethink,
many people do not murder and rape also because of the fact that they will be jailed for that. Not necessarily just because it is a bad thing to do. 

@Kiddo,
Atheist say "There is NO God."
Agnostic says "I am not sure about that. It is difficult to know"
Agnostic Theist "There is God. But difficult to understand with our knowledge"

Stalin was an Atheist. Agnostics do not side with Atheists. Agnostic Atheists also do not side with Atheists. I am an Agnostic myself but i am flexible, i can debate like an Agnostic Theist. I see many merits of religion so i support it. Now to answer your question. Lets say my father told me to study hard and get a good career. He adviced me not to do drugs. Then I fail to study hard and become a drug addict. I am still my father;s son but you cannot say that i have been a good son. Nor can you say that my father was bad. But had i been a studious son and passed my exams with flying colours, you can make 2 conclusions. My father was a good father. He always was a good father. But i am a good son too because i followed my fathers advice. So unless my father had adviced me to do drugs and kill people, you cannot blame him. Churches do not teach you to kill people. Buddhists also do not do that. Hindu temples also do not teach that. 

@____bro,
yes i would take his upbringing into consideration. That is called scientific analysis. If you want to prove Atheists can do good without religion then you really have a great deal to prove. At least in current times. You have to prove that the particular Atheist had nothing to do with religion all his life. You have to dig up his parents religion and prove that they also had nothing to do with religion. And then lastly, you have to prove that the society they grew up in also had nothing to do with religion. So you are looking at an Atheist, with Atheist parents in an Atheist society doing their good. With that you can make a wholesome argument for me. But trust me from a sociological perspective, you would still have more on your plate to prove because they are not easy to convince, they will look at the whole family tree, including grandparents. You cannot blame them, after all they have to justify. You do have to admit sociology plays a big part.   


 


          

Freedom, clearly you are a very confused person. It's no wonder that you had to change your religion because you are one confused person. Your reasoning skills and logic is lacking too as you have shown by the quality or lack thereof of your thought process.

You say "If i tell you i am a multi millionaire, all you need is to see me living in a multi million dollar mansion, driving around in an expensive lamborghini, etc. I do not have to show you my bank balance. If you were smart, you would ask me instead how to become rich like me and i would teach you the way. "

That is one convoluted reasoning! It does not equate in any way with the analogy of God. If you are living in mansion driving lamborghini, then obviously you are rich. Even a 2 year old knows that. Just because you are blindly convinced about the existence of god in your own mind, it does not mean its true! Noone has had any concrete proof so far so all you have is your enthusiasm on your newly acquired religion and that's about it.

You say "Among believers, we have already proven the existence of God. "
HOW?? In your minds? That does not mean anything was proved. It's only a belief.

"many people do not murder and rape also because of the fact that they will be jailed for that. Not necessarily just because it is a bad thing to do. "

You are confusing the role of religion and law here. Law and religion are two separate things. Anti humane and anti social actions are considered to be crime as agreed by civilization and society. Some people eat cows some don't but killing humans is not accepted anywhere unless it is a form of punishment for killing others.

" If you were smart, you would ask me instead how to become rich like me and i would teach you the way. "

Why don't you share why you converted your religion? Did christ come and talk to you in your sleep? or what happened? why don't you tell us how you became so rich as far as your religious standing?

@Rethink,
if you read all my replies, you will not ask me stupid questions. Next time you do that, you will be ignored. It will just prove you are a Troll and i do not reply to Trolls.
Here is the analogy.

"I am a multi millionaire" = "There is a God".

My lifestyle reflects that i am rich= My lifestyle of praying, having faith reflects my belief in God.

"Show me proof of God" = "Show me your bank balance".

See i said "There is a God". I also said " I am a multi millionaire" I NEVER said "There is a God and i will prove it to you." I also did not say "I will show you my bank balance." So if you would not ask to see my bank balance, you should also not ask to show me proof of God because my lifestyle already reflects the statement that i made. 

Religion NEVER said that accessing God is easy. IT has always been FAITH based. So if you want me to take out God like a candy and show it to you, then seriously, i would ask you NOT to see a Dr, but read all the reiigious books once again. Then AFTER that, you go and see a Dr because i suspect that there could be a peanut inside instead of a brain.

 

Didn't freedom credited warren buffet's generosity to his Christian upbringing?

Can we credit Hitlers deed to the same?
http://i.imgur.com/NRhiT.jpg

@kiddo bro,
a Jesus lover who killed millions of Jews, inspite of Jesus being a Jew and Jews being the chosen ones of God, and never mind that Jesus never talked about killing others but forgiveness and compassion, yeah it makes perfect sense that Hitler did it in the name of Christianity. Refer back to my father/son analogy. 
Hitler was a politician, he needed votes, the only way he was going to achieve this was by being an imposter. He wanted to destroy the churches slowly. If you read his history, including the many letters, Atheist is what best describes him.    

@Rethink bro,
well you were the one who said that people should do things for the good that it is and not for any ulterior motive. I just wanted to mention to you that the legal system also nurtures that same ulterior motive that religion does. You are wrong when you say there will be no ulterior motive for doing good without religion.   

Freedom2012," to ask Theists to jump off a cliff to prove the existence of God is same as me asking you to go on a murder and raping spree since there is no God" No one is askingyou to jump off the cliff to prove anything. Now we are going by Bible your holy book and its claims. Every Sunday your preacher who touts its miralcles. Now if you don't have the intelligence to question its claims.. he he then you are one of them--> blindly following the herd Screaming Hallelujah not knowing its significance. In a logical society none is going to go on a raping spree, there will be consequences(not like the crusade where they were given a free pass to kill in the name of your lord Jesus). 

Freedom2012,"God did not make sickness. Most predisposing factors for sickness are alcohol abuse, smoking, sedentary lifestyle, pollution, etc. Yes it can be genetic and that is the only factor that can be attributed to God. But you really have to be well read in Genetics to prove that. I am not well read in that but we all know that use of nuclear weapons can interfere with our  genes. So, you have to prove that God made those defective genes. It only proves that we were made to evolve and are susceptible to external factors to a large extent. It proves that we were not made perfect." lol !! Well acording to Bible, Man was made in the image of god, Right ? lol !! So that should include sickness too should it not ? We are talking about Jesus and Bible not Genetics. So when nuclear weapons can interferes with Genetics and mutates... Are you still made in the image of your lord ? Well according to Bible, God makes this world go round including those defective genes. If we are made to evolve then shouldn't Bible be upgraded to go with our evolution? lol And those external factors are god's creation too !! Hey nobody said we are perfect, otherwise we will be god(or supremebeing). lol !!


Freedom2012,"it is better to observe a debate if you do not have anything intelligent to contribute. "
I am sorry, unfortunately I am not as intelligent as you.  My lame brain does not have one bit of rationality. lol !!

In my earlier threads, I discussed why people believe in god. Actually, if you research more on how the idea of religion came about, not everything has to do with some aristocrats trying control the herd. Much before Socrates, like Thaler, or much earlier in eastern side people had a sense of wonder...'how' 'why' ....A tiny seed has all the codes for a GIANT tree..(Let me tell you..I know it's genes..and I also know a few weeks ago news came out that now we are able to study genes of new borns to tell what exactly they will be like growing up..so much so that whether or not the baby will have Alzheimer's in his/her 70s...I know). But how about gene? Just like the question 'What before the Big Bang?" Don't you think we should be asking "Where does the gene come from?" Where does it end, my friends? Where does it end?

Here is what I remember hearing a Sanskrit slok (sorry, couldn't recall a few words). 

एको: देवो केशवो वा शिवो वा:
एको: वास: पत्तने वा वने वा:
एको: नारी सुन्दरी वा दरी वा:
एको: मित्रो (Rich ) वा (poor ) वा:

अर्थात, (कम से कम)
एउटा भगवान मान चाहे केशव (कृष्ण) चाहे शिव, एउटा घर बनाउ चाहे महल होस् चाहे झुप्रो (बनमा), एउटा स्वास्नी ल्याउ चाहे सुन्दरी होस् चाहे कुरुप नै किन नहोस, एउटा साथी बनाउ चाहे धनी होस् चाहे गरीब.

Kinda funny the way it's writtend...but makes you wonder if these people can now be called naive unsophisticated fools. I just don't know.

Freedom I have a valid question for you who have converted to christianity. Do you know that Christianity believes in incest? For, the history of mankind begins with Adam and Eve, they have children. Then their children have children through incest.

Congratulations on your new religion.

Freedom ..enjoy !!

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxc50X0ab8o

Keep your religion to yourself, don't spew your ideology onto others when you can't even show proof of the claims you make. 
I found this pic interesting

 My friend, Freedom 2012,

Now you are pointing towadrs christian upbringing  has made people good even if they turn athetis in their later life, and try to take credit for it 

In the early era of October revolution of 1917. The communist ideologue uesd to have similar opinion about the people growing up in communist Russia. they beelived that the generation which grow up in cummunism will be "Communist man", "man of the future"

From the early times, ideologists of Communism have postulated that within the new society of pure communism and the social conditions therein, a New Man and New Woman would develop with qualities reflecting surrounding circumstances of post-scarcity and unprecedented scientific development.^[2] For example, Leon Trotskywrote in Literature and Revolution about the "Communist man", "man of the future":

“

Man will make it his purpose to master his own feelings, to raise his instincts to the heights of consciousness, to make them transparent, to extend the wires of his will into hidden recesses, and thereby to raise himself to a new plain plane, to create a higher social biologic type, or, if you please, a superman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Soviet_man

ARYAN CIRCLE, S INVOLVMENT IN METHAMPHETAMINE 
The Aryan Circle operates beyond prison and run underground methamphetamine labs in small towns across Texas and the southern United States. 29 Aryan Circle members were recently charged for operating a meth lab in Midland, Texas. The gang was selling mass quantities of methamphetamine to members of the Aryan Brotherhood ABT, Mexikanemi (Texas Mexican Mafia) and Barrio Azteca. The gang was recently the target of the FBI after officials suspected the organization was involved in a string of murders related to narcotics. (Associated Press)

 Not only communist , my friend  many racists also beleive in so called "upbringing effect"

"BELIEFS"
1. Believe in the betterment and preservation of the white race. 
2 Believe in separatism 
3. Believe that no foreigner should rule over the white race. 
4. Believe that all who are against or oppress the white race are sworn enemies. 
5 Believe in the rights of the White race. 
6. Believe in the right to teach white children of the Aryan cultures and heritage. 
7. Believe only in the support of the white race. 
8. Believe that it is important to guide the upbringing of white children, as they are the heirs to the future.

http://www.prisonoffenders.com/aryan_circle.html

Now some more from nazis thinking.
Hitler argued that the German (he wrongly described them as the Aryan race) was superior to all others. Hitler was obsessed with 'racial purity'. He used the word 'Aryan' to describe his idea of a 'pure German race' or Herrenvolk. The 'Aryan race' had a duty to control the world.

very similar thinking to todays certain sect ha ?

Hitlar also tried to creat pure germans by combination of breeding and Aryan upbringing. Nazis stoel almost 12000 babies , who fit in Aryan catagory and handed them to SS for "upbringing " so that they will grow up as pure, deciplined and intelliegtn Aryan who will obey Hitlar . And you know what happened 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1111170/Stolen-Nazis-The-tragic-tale-12-000-blue-eyed-blond-children-taken-SS-create-Aryan-super-race.html

My friend Communists tried, Nazis tried , may be others might have tried too but all failed you know why?

Because just depending upon the number of chromosomes and how they criss cross during meotic cell division there are about 1 trillion posibilty of human nature, we are now just 7 billion, And even if we counted from the begenning of human race may be approximately 55billion still we havnt reached different possiblity of getting human with different thoughts/behavior (good or bad).

It is very strange people are still talking about effect of upbringing where as human History has recorded grand failure of this concept, I would like to cite few failure

1. Gautam Budhha-- Hindu upbringing started different thought (failure of hindu upbringing)
2. Jesus Christ-Jews upbringing-Started christianty ( failure of Jews upbringing)
3. Muhammad- Jews/Christian/polytheistic upbringing- failuer of those upbringing

Modern days

1. Karl Marx- Christian upbringing ended up writing a book, based on which many revolutions were organsided  which killed many people.
2. Vladimer lenin-Christian Upbringing-eneded up with first killer revolution which enede din grand failure after 72 years
3. Hitler-Christian upbringing, eneded up killing many -many humans

Present day

1.Freedom 2012----Hindu upbringing ( I am guessing here)-ended up being Christian
2. _____,-------------- Hindu upbringing-eneded up non beliver

So my friend these are some garnd failure of so called "upbringign effect"

This proves that, major human nature is independent of "Upbringing" 
 why? 

Because during meotic cell division there are 2²³ possibilitys of DNA combination , which goves different fingure print for each human.

So @------, if I agree with your ‘upbringing’ idea, I do refuse to believe that there is no solution. I am sure the ways religions are used have brought very negative consequences. I agree the modality of it needs to change. Perhaps, remove the power (priest/pundits) centers, include the science, promote equality, recognize the ever-evolving society, promote the unity of mankind and nations? Perhaps?