Returning to Nepal with a US degree, good or a bad idea?

Dolphin, you still haven't told me about the employers who offer 1 Lakh/ month with a MBA Degree. http://sajha.com/sajha/chat/smileys/m-wacko.gif

people like newstudets make me sad. Everythng they say are hard facts and truth coming down from the sky and everything others say are general assumptions.and we have to live with that if we want harmony or else should hide out tails be in some corner lets's see some of the assumptions made in this thread:

"GC is taken for granted--because as far as I see, almost every Nepali around me have by now applied and received their greencard. Let's face it, lawyers who visit Sajha do so to make people greencard. I know graduate students have worked as legal councillor and made tons of money on these green card scam here. Furthermore, almost everyone except decent Nepali student working his ass off in a college town middle of nowhere seem to have greencard."

oh ya? i asked you where you lived because where i live i still see lots of illegal Nepalis working in restaurants and students hoping to land jobs who can sponsor them. Arent's you generalizing here saying that almost all Nepalis have received green cards by fake asylum because you happen to be around with those people. I live in a metro city and i still see lots of students without papers working for dhotis as slaves.

" I knew this guy, Ichha Raj Tamang, came from remote district, and started a housing business and is now a billionaire. The owner of Bhatbhateni mall, Min Bahadur Gurung, too came from remote district and became almost billionaire. It is not easy to succeed in Nepal, I agree, but there are tons of people with new ideas who have worked hard to succeed, and in succeeding, not only did they make money for themselves, they also changed the way we live in KTM."

There is no point of saying i know this guy and i know that guy. we are talking about US graduates with degrees going to Nepal in 2011 in general.some of us may be exceptionally talented and or lucky and can even make it in North korea but most of us if we do not have family ties with influentials and enough capital our dreams are to die in Nepal.  The Bhatbhateni guy was there 25 year ago to start his business and i don't know the other guy you told me about. I do know my cousion who started a really big business and now he is losing his 3 houses and land in Katmandu with banks. i also know other 10 -15 people who havie lost their everything trying to be an "elite" of kathmandu. Just because it has worked with some of your friends and MR. Tamang does not mean it will work out for everyone who returns from the US to succeed in Nepal. We personally don't know what kind of background, circumstances, support they had to r succeed. and again we can't generalize for everyone basing on one or two of your friends.
so stop assss uming yourself first. 
 
we all are talking general things here. all i can do like others is to talk something out of my personal experence and from the experence of the people who i know. When i said 6 ropanis land and like 10 carore in capital to start a business that means you need to have around that kind of capital to get loans or t0 invest into a mid -sized business if you want to buy a decent car and have a decent house as you are used to of by living in the USA. of course, you can always open a little grocery pasal or a small restaurant for less capital if thats what you mean by becoming a successful businessman. or like agni ji said, you can always do yoga and meditation to be happy.

 

Let me share you some of the news I have. A friend of mine, who recently went back to Nepal felt much lonely and abandoned than in USA. Here, you still have your friends to talk over the phone using unlimited weekend and night calls; you get social "nepal-like" environment when Nepalese get together. But in Nepal, there is only competition and jealousy, unnecessary show-off, exaggeration of achievements, and unverifiable claims, which all make you sick pretty soon. My friend met a old-time friend (Mr. A), who started bragging about owning 17 houses in KTM as soon as they started talking. Just 5 years ago, Mr. A used to live in a mid-sized DERA close to ringroad. Another friend (Mr. B) asked first "how much his friends in USA earns?" than any other questions and told him that Mr. B owns a +2 college, a house worth of 2 karod, car worth of nearly 1 karod and shared-investment in many other institutions. Mr. B was unable to get Rs. 2000 loan in the college days. Mr. C described him of using helicopter to visit the working sites, kept receiving calls in his mobile interrupting the talk frequently, and those calls were not business-related either. Mr. D took him to a restaurent and spent Rs 5000.00 ($70.00) easily for light refreshment whereas he still feels spending $25.00 in a lunch for two people is luxury in USA. Mr. E, F, G did not returned a call he placed. He could find very few people he knew in the town, and felt much more uncomfortable than he ever imagined. In Temples, people easily throw Rs 100.00 bills to the priests. Ohh, what a change? How the money is so cheap? How they make so much money? Are they all doing legitimate business? Is there a system to track the transactions? Or people are just grabbing money dropping off from the sky?

I recommended a labor-supervisor to a new job some 10-years ago, who was suffering mental-torture (leading to jobloss) from a company I worked earlier. This guy found me through social network after a long time. I was surprised from his current status. He has recruited several of my friends in his company. He owns a construction company, invested in several schools, and holds land more than 20 ropanies in KTM. OMG, what a change? He told me "Sir, You have changed my life, thank you. I will help you if you ever need me." I am happy for him.

I met a Nepalese struggling very hard to survive in a foreign land. I encouraged him to go back Nepal, and he did. After 6 years, we are reconnected through Social network. He worked for UN agency in Nepal, and his facebook is full of the photographs showing his fortunes. He told me "Dai, thank you for suggesting me going back to Nepal, and providing moral support when I was in hard time. I am glad I followed your suggestion."

The above cases tell both optimistic and pessimistic aspect of going back to Nepal. In chautari, a friend writes:
मुग्लान पसेको नि धेरै भइसकेछ - आफु लाई त हावाइजहाज मा जान बडा डर लागेर आउछ
त्यसैले मैले के सोचे भने जब नेपाल सम्म यहाँ बाट बस जान्छ - हामी तब जान्छ -
This might be the case for majority.

kalopani,

Now you are slowly getting personal.

I didn't say all students have greencard. Though some have. I would give you the place where I live, but it is sajha. Why bother giving up my privacy just to win an argument? Anyway, I live in a very popular tourist destination in the west coast. If you don't know, the conversion rate for asylym application (which eventually lead to greencard, I have heard) is (or at least was until a few months ago) almost 100%.  Several students too took up this opportunity. I knew a few kids who were here, applied for asylym, and then moved elsewhere.

It takes years to make money like Tamang or Gurung. Btw, Tamang was also a returnee from foreign country. In America too, it takes years to make a decent amount of money. Lots of people in US too has no saving. Economic crisis last year has sent people back to work in their retirement age. If you are expecting to make karods in your first year doing business, then you better have a great idea.

To sum it up, starting a business, making it run successfully is a very arduous task. It takes talent, luck and what not. To those who want a lazy life, working their ass off to their retirement, who want to run away from their country because the country is not as good as USA, they will find excuses to run away and for them, america is a pleasing option. If you think you are bright, you can transform a society back home whether by introducing a new product, or by creating jobs, being a Nepali Nepal is the right place for you.

Without mincing my words, what I absolutely don't like is people coming here making bogus claim that it requires 6 ropanis of land to start a business and somehow access to credit is really easy in the states or barrier to entry for business is nonexistent in the states[I bet those who say starting a business is easy here hasn't done so. How hard it is to start a mill, a restaurant or a coffee shop in Nepal and how many permission do you require to do so in the states?]. US credit scenario has changed in the last few years. Nor is it an absolutely business friendly place. The regulations (like the one I mentioned above) are increasingly insane. But what you should note is that if you are poor, it is not easy to get credit or do things anywhere in the world. If you don't have talent to succeed in business world, if you don't have enough network, if you don't have charming personality, it is tough everywhere.

I don't want to spend too much time in Sajha, so here are my last words. We all must work hard. But just bitching about Nepal is not gonna help us. If people like Mahabir Pun or Sanduk Ruit had listened to you guys and stayed in the first world, it wouldn't have made Nepal any better off. More educated people in Nepal can't be a bad thing, and in fact, that's the only way to take our country forward. baaki, yedi kohi england, australia or us ma basna chahanchhan bhane uniharuko marjee, kasale ke bhanna sakchha ra.
==

Chana,

I think it is okey to ask a states-living Nepali how much he earn in the states, after all that is why he went to the states. I think those in Nepal, making it big there, running good firms and hiring people, do have right to ridicule the people who go to the states by claiming they never belonged to Nepal. In particular, I have hard time forgiving a group of people who come to the states and don't go back: those who worked for govt and came here for training and never went back,  the J1 visa people , those who studied in sarkari schools/engineering college/medical college and never ever thought of paying back etc.

New student writes "In particular, I have hard time forgiving a group of people who come to the states and don't go back:"

Many people have the exact thought (including mine) but the other side of story is that those who returned have no satisfaction either. I am from the family of US returnee. You won't probably believe that my family does not have "maid", "bike", "car", "cable-connection", "flat screen tv", "gated bengallow", "high speed internet". Don't underestimate, my family is not lazy, nor dumb. My family still holds top-tier position in Nepal, but do not earn a penny other than sukkhaa government talab. Did not want to join NGO/INGO leaving public service. Still continuing to go to office regularly in public transportation and is determined to serve the same way until the retirement. We refused to follow politicians for opportunity, and to follow unethical businesses. We refused to make unfulfilling claims, and fooling people around. So, we are the example of honest and laborous people in Nepal, failure in eyes of many people who are after money only.

 Chana,

I thought I wrote my last comment on this thread, but I wanted to add one rejoinder in your story.

I have met several US returnees who saved our government tons of money because they were honest bureaucrat. Eventhough several bureaucrats havne't made money for themselves, they have saved govt a lot of money. One particular example is a guy who went back with Vanderbilt PhD in economics and worked in Rashtra Bank. He saved Nepal govt billions of Rupees during an infamous "Arab Kanda". Other bureaucrats--there are many--,too, have resisted order of corrupt politicians to save money for our govt. Of course, there are a lot of other bad apples.

I am not surprised by the fact that your family doesn't have maid to work or some other strappings of wealth to show off. Working in govt service doesn't promise you any such thing anyway. (working in military would have made that possible for high ranking officers). To make money, one has to be businessman or inherit wealth or be corrupt or buy lottery.

I am relatively well steeped in american life. I have several American friends, and the story is more or less same here. If you want to make tons of money, you should be a businessman here. A salary of 90K per year will normally mean you take only 50K per year. Kid's education , and dinners often take away. What is left has to be set aside for health. A friend of mine had a sister who went to Duke, but once their father had a cancer, she had to come back to a state school, because his savings were eaten away by his disease. A long illness is the worst thing here.

Life is tough anyway. We tend to create a safety network, a social sorrounding around you that comes to rescue when  you need help, to cope with really  harsh situation. I think our country has a lot of potential and something is not clicking right at the moment. I don't want every Nepali to head home, but those who promised to head home after their education should go, and those who actually have talent to do some innovative business should also go. If there are people around us who can use garbage of KTM to make something beautiful, or who can create nice product using our country's raw materials should also go. those  who are not bright enough to make some integrated product, but only know what to do (araeko garne),  they probably won't have much better life in nepal either.This is different from saying, as some here did, that you should go only if you are not good enough to land a job here. I think that is the most stupid thing to say.

Hope you guys enjoy your conversation here on.

 Someone Said.

A discussion has always three sides.

1. My Side
2. Your Side
3. The Right Side (Me and You).

But i didn't expect that this thread would go so long. Anyway its good to see people who want to go back.

"मुग्लान पसेको नि धेरै भइसकेछ - आफु लाई त हावाइजहाज मा जान बडा डर लागेर आउछ
त्यसैले मैले के सोचे भने जब नेपाल सम्म यहाँ बाट बस जान्छ - हामी तब जान्छ - 

This is exactly the situation of most people.

They want to be in safe side.

this thread bring out the suffocation of nepalese that are trapped in between east and west. its a dilemma that almost all the nepalese face in the US. if people return to nepal before they get married or have a child, then they will not have a whole lot of stuff to think about compared to a single person.

this thread has been very interesting with all the pros and cons. thanks to the originator and thanks to all the contributors that took some time out and expressed their views. this thread provides a very meaningful insight into all of our lives.

 I don't care whatsoever I  hear through all these conversations! I have my dignity and destiny and that is Nepal. We all keep saying the same shit that Nepal doesn't have good government, no electricity, no laws no nothing and so on. But what I say is lets go do it then. If not you then who and if not now then when!!!! Who said that Nepal doesn't have a resource or whatever to be a successful person. I have seen so many and I mean tons of  people who did great in their lives after leaving the States..I have a good site regarding this..
www.whynepal.com , www.e4nepal.com...just check it out...Anyways I am going back in December. Wish me luck and good luck to ya all the sajhaites.....

 On a different note, I've got a feeling that our female counterparts would be more reluctant to return back thanks to our great society in Nepal. 

nmaharjan, I'd love to hear your take in a years time. 

becasue of the freedom and opportunities not given to them in nepal, a handful of females would return back. most of them will not be able to live together before marriage in nepal, nor will they be allowed to smoke, drink or wear skimpy clothes in the name of gender oppression.

newstudent, sorry nothing person.. i come here to mingle with other Nepali friends not to make foes. Life's already hard up here.. take care my friend

Chana  said, "
My family still holds top-tier position in Nepal, but do not earn a penny other than sukkhaa government talab. Did not want to join NGO/INGO leaving public service. Still continuing to go to office regularly in public transportation and is determined to serve the same way until the retirement. We refused to follow politicians for opportunity, and to follow unethical businesses. We refused to make unfulfilling claims, and fooling people around.."

Chana if i ever come across to your family i will fully bow my head to your elders with purest respect. just to read something like this from a fellow Nepali brings me to tears. Now a days all we see , hear is Nepali people cheating and lying. Even in tele films like jire khursani and tito satya, all we see is corruption and lawlessness. i came to sajha feeling home sick and i read threads like how to lie on asylum and other immigration stuff etc etc. to know that people like you exist in my country makes me prouder more than anything. i too come from a family like that. my dad returned from usa in 1957 after studying in a ivy league. he did earn a lot of respect and fame but we were always broke and that gave me complexes being around with other rich kids in kathmandu. i was so naive to not realize that i was still from those very few fortunate ones from our country. Eventually politicans playes lots of tricks and my dad had to quit his job. then i got out of Nepal and vowed never to go back. in 12 years i have only one back once to see if i can actually make a difference but because of some family reasons i had to come back. I can totallyl relate to you and again, my sincere respect to you and your family my friend..

राछस,  nmaharjan and others who have decided to return, First, I salute your determination and spirit.

I did not join this thread to encourage or discourage someone who has a plan to return back. I just wanted to share some of my observations and show both sides of a coin so that it would be easier for people getting out of "romanticism" as Agni mentioned somewhere in his post. In the past I encouraged somebody to return, and that worked great for them, but I can not generalize the case.

Kalopani, you have perfectly understood my situation and the experience of my family in our society.  Thank you for sharing your feeling. We are ordinary middle class people. My family has two US returnees, one in 1958 and one in 1984. As newstudent mentioned, the US returnees might have contributed a lot for our country, but those contributions are not counted now. Personally, I thought we deserved better opportunity and life, but I did not have complexities as we had no family connection to elites and we tried staying away from rich kids. All my immediate family members (including myself) are educated in government school. Yet we faced so much within our larger family ties, relative circle and society that it really takes long pages to describe. May be, I will write them in future.

I would be glad to see if there is some data or statistics to show how many % of Nepalese are actually returned from US (scholarship holders, self financed, or government trainees), what they did after returning, and where they stand now. Most people generalize their understanding from a small sample, or from someone they have known. If they see a few successful US returnees or failure cases, they keep arguing about that endlessly.

Every case has a different story. In my limited observation (approximately 25 cases), most US returnees were considered successful while they were active in duty. But they regret for returning back to Nepal after getting retired from their service, particulalry when they see their kids suffering and struggling for maintaining legal status in the country they left years ago. They want their children to settle down in USA/Canada/Australia or European country. Their kids would not have suffered if they did not return. They have seen their friends are living happier and enjoying smoother American life who decided to desert the country by breaking the "bonds" they signed before leaving the country. These US returned Silver generation feel delighted to travel USA/Canada/Australia/EU for babyseating their grand-kids.

Being optimistic is one aspect, but the news and common nepalese attitude is not encouraging for packing up your bag. Nepal has turned to be a place where only "talkers" flourish but "doers" are likely to suffer badly. Examples of Mahabir Pun is just exception. There are many youngsters (actually 25-45 year group people) in Nepal who have made plenty of money in the recent realter-business-bubble. In addition to that NGO/INGO and remittance is also pouring money in Nepalese market, which has elevated all other businesses including consumer-market, domestic tourism, education, service-section etc. Also there are unconfirmed reports that some international-crime-syndicate have used Kathmandu as the hub for converting black-money to white money. Thus the cashflow rate is high in the market, and it is inflated like a bubble economy. Everyone including a Bhariya to small scale business enterprenures, who are economically active, seem making enough money to afford the inflated market price of Kathmandu. This bubble is however not based on substantial economic foundation, and therefore it is sure to burst. So, the current KTM economy and the financial indicators may soon start moving south. There are reports claiming that many banks are at high risk of failure.

For returning people, daily life would definitely be hard, but possible to digest. However, your friends and family in Nepal might have changed now. They may not have time and interest to see, talk or hang out with you because now everyone in Nepal know that America-returned people don't have money. So, the expectation of social life may purely be the romantic expectation only.

IT'S ALL ABOUT DEFINING YOUR LIFE.

the US is not same anymore. the ressession has take a toll out of American, needless to mention Nepali people in the US. JOb market has gone sour and there is no indication that it will recover anytime soon. for nepali student or nepali graduates, it has become impossible to get a real job with grauuate degree. heck it has become too difficult to get a minimum paying job. many nepali are living in a worst living condition, cramping in a small apartment just get by.

should those students or graduates continue to live in such condition hoping that good future is coming. or should those nepali students go to nepal where their house is empty with only mom and pop living together.

for many students, it's no better to live in the US than to return back home. I work in a fortune 500 company in financial sector and personally, i see no sign of recovery in job market in the US any time soon.

if  you talk about no electirity or proper road condition, it no better here for students who are living in 6x6 ft apartment eating ramen noodles.

I say man up and go back and do something. there are lots of opportunities in Nepal right now. now you might ask where but i clearly see many.

Completely agree with Agnibikram. A nepali woman will have harder time re-adjusting back home than a nepali man.
A closed minded, male dominant society that we have back home.

Read this one Chanaa regarding how many people returned and got enlightened thereafter.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/33467040/Entrepreneurs-for-Nepal-handbook

To all of you going back to Nepal: You are the kind of people I always wish I could be.
Once a very wise person told me that you can start over at any stage of your life, hopefully one day i will be as courageous as you guys and follow your lead and start a new chapter in Nepal.

Goodluck to you and where ever the journey takes you. 

chanaa

"I would be glad to see if there is some data or statistics to show how many % of Nepalese are actually returned from US (scholarship holders, self financed, or government trainees), what they did after returning, and where they stand now"

this would really be interesting but our government will again charge some money to be registered as they do when a student has to have no objection letter from the ministry of education. government always tells about the number of people leaving but has never had effort to see if people have come back with education and how that can be utilized.

dolphin

i agree that US is not the same it was before. immigrattion policies are becoming tougher every year. a majority of nepalese students find it hard to land a job after graduation, be it communication barrier or immigration status. only a few make it and are satisfied with their life.the irony is very true about ramen and cramped in an apartment.

nmaharjan

thanks for the link. its great

chaurey

the time is always right to do the right thing!

 
@ Folks,

- me likes this thread / topic ... me following closely .... 

- i liked it because ...

• of the way ... people ... R pouring out their hearts & minds

- Pardon my noise / interruption ... Plz. continue ...